Episode Description
In this episode, Zach Diamond, Strategic Program Manager at Miro, discusses the Miro Discovery Center and its role in building customer relationships. He also dives into the pros and cons of product-led versus content-led strategies.
Key Highlights:
- Mirror Discovery Center: A program to strengthen relationships with Miro's key customers through in-person interactions.
- Product-Led vs. Sales-Led: The benefits and challenges of each approach, emphasizing the need for a balanced strategy.
- Lead Generation: Comparing content-led and product-led strategies for generating leads and their financial impacts.
- Content Syndication and ABM: Exploring how these strategies can build brand trust and enhance customer relationships.
Zach Diamond on LinkedIn
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Summary:
pharosIQ welcomes Zach Diamond, head of the Miro Discovery Center in Austin. The discussion centers on innovative strategies for demand generation and customer retention, highlighting the significance of relationship-building in today's digital landscape. Zach offers insights into the integration of sales-led and product-led growth approaches, the importance of personalized customer experiences, and the changing dynamics of B2B marketing.
pharosIQ: welcome to this week's episode of pharosIQ’s Podcast the podcast for B2B marketers that is anything but boring. pharosIQ with pharosIQ, your weekly host. And here we're really excited to have, Zach with us, Zach Diamond from Miro. So Zach heads up the, Miro Discovery Center down in Austin,
which helps create bespoke experiences for their highest value customers. I think we're going to get some unique takes on demand generation from a different perspective today from Zach. we're really pumped to have you. Zach, welcome.
Zach Diamond: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
pharosIQ: Okay. So let's start with what is the Miro Discovery Center and let's dive into that because it sounds pretty unique and interesting.
Zach Diamond: Yeah, absolutely. So the Miro Discovery Center is our take on an executive briefing center. Which is quite an interesting world in the marketing landscape, depending on the company.
It's not actually always on marketing. Sometimes it sits on sales, but it's essentially a place either in the office or a separate campus where we can bring in our most valuable customers. I think of this like an ABM program where we're tailoring an experience, except it's actually in person where we're giving them, an agenda that is thoughtfully curated to their business needs.
pharosIQ: Got it. So this is for your is this for prospects generally or for customers or both
Zach Diamond: a little bit of both. Theoretically, it could have a prospect motion and some other executive briefing programs do for what we're using it for. It's mostly for our current customers. I would say expansion, but it's not always about expanding a deal.
It's less of a sales motion and more of a relationship marketing tool. So even if it's a flat renewal, if they just signed on a contract, it's mostly a way for us to say, Hey, you've decided to partner with us, come on site, meet the people behind the scenes, get to know us and have more faith in this relationship that we're building.
pharosIQ: No, it's really a great concept because I think, as I'm sure you're hearing and I'm seeing in the space a lot right now is that, customer retention is becoming just so massively important as the economy kind of switches to a little bit more of a down cycle where we're leaving the space where interest rates were one and a half percent and everybody was flooding money into the space and now things are a little bit more about the nitty gritty of selling marketing and customer experience.
What are some of the things. From a customer retention standpoint that you've seen successful that, other marketers or customer experience teams can do, again, ideas like this executive briefing center.
Zach Diamond: Sure. Yeah. I think that we've entered such a digital world and especially after the pandemic, but I think this was probably starting before the pandemic as well, and that we've gotten so used to zoom calls and so used to this.
Digital transaction where you're entering companies in on Salesforce and you're tracking leads and you're doing lead scoring and, you're generating MQLs. And we've forgotten that these are people. And I think we saw this quite a bit with Miro where we went through hyper growth and we saw all these users and we saw all these really quick transactions of this tool is working for us.
We're just going to buy it, right? We're going to buy it and we're going to run with it. We didn't take the time and we were growing super fast. It's not necessarily like we have the time, but we forgot to build relationships with these key buyers and that has direct impact on customer retention.
So I see the mirror discovery center, or we call it the MDC as really a way to say, let's take a step back and let's get to know each other. Let's make sure that you understand Miro, the vision, the brand, the story rather than Miro the tool, because. The tool can be done in a number of ways, right? Like the thing that makes MiroMiro is the people behind the tool and the direction that we're going.
So in terms of customer retention, it's about on one hand, building trust in the company, but on the other hand, building trust with the people that the customer is dealing with directly,
pharosIQ: Is the Executive Briefing Center designed to showcase Miro and what it does and the vision to the executives who obviously ultimately handle budgets? Is that the premise there or are you bringing in the end users as well too?
Zach Diamond: It depends. we can do both. It depends on the company use case, but I would say the former is probably, the easier explanation.
So when we have Miro, and I guess for those who are unaware, Miro is a collaboration workspace. So what that means is it's an infinite canvas where we can map out processes. You can host presentations, diagrams, brainstorms, ideation. And when you look at the tool, I would say for an end user, it's.
Not that complicated to pick up. There's rituals and best practices that can really be game changing for a day to day job. But as a whole, we're not talking about the most technical tool on the market. So what we try to do with the mirror discovery center is not talk about the product. I think when we're doing how to's or showing use cases, demos, that can be replicated pretty easily on zoom or remote.
When we're talking about the direction that the company is going, our idea of an innovation workspace of creating a purpose built tool stack that supports your employees, improves employee experience, creates a culture of collaboration. All of these things are how we use Miro, how we implement it and how we implement our vision.
And that I think is, Much more easily able to get across when we're all in person in a room. So most often these are the executives at a company. These are people that don't necessarily need to see all the demos and all the technicalities that Miro has, but in some cases it's both especially we see this with transformation or agile teams, best practices and how to use Miro to create that culture.
It's a little bit of both, but, we're not doing demos and yeah,
pharosIQ: and it's a good play too. Because again, as an executive and I spent most of my career as a sales leader. to me, Miro's it's that thing that you put the post it notes on and you shuffle them back and forth.
That just. Like when someone says mirror, that's the first thing I think about is like, Oh, that's where the product team collaborates on that or the marketing team specs out the website design and you put post its up there. And so it's like really creating that cultural value creates the stickiness.
And again, which leads me to that you spent. A good part of your time is a demand generation person at Miro, right? Building out a sales led motion in a company that's fairly well known for a product led motion. So I'm really fascinated by that journey, was it your idea to start the sales led side?
Was it someone who went out and found you to do it? What was the catalyst for? Adding sales led to one of the more well known successful product led motions in our space.
Zach Diamond: Sure. Yeah. So I was hired as part of that strategy. it wasn't necessarily replacing product led with sales led.
It was rather supplementing, I would say it was a necessity, right? We absolutely skyrocketed during the pandemic usage went through the roof. We saw companies just. Migrating all of their processes onto Miro because they needed a virtual collaboration space. And we didn't have the sales infrastructure or really the revenue marketing infrastructure to surface leads in the right way and to get those people over to sales.
So from a product led perspective, we saw our number one driver of user acquisition being the product itself. So create a board. I want to share it with you. And that's how you get into Miro. It wasn't you clicking on an ad or an email. the majority was this virality component within the product itself.
So the task wasn't to generate leads. It was to surface high intent individuals at companies that had the budget to spend on an enterprise plan. So it was, it's really this. Bottoms up motion of making sure there is a footprint, making sure people are using it, are experiencing the product stickiness and habit moments.
And at the same time, having the tops down motion, to strategically sell and strategically show the value of the product to the decision makers.
pharosIQ: Yeah. And it's that, I think you use that, the key word, enterprise, if you will, right there, you reach a certain level where I think product led goes, it just reaches a level where you need a human to, connect the dots.
I think slack saw the same thing, Slack reached that point where they went heavy, right? And now their sales team is, thousand people plus, and they're, a really big demand gen machine you have, Atlassian, right?
Which was, they touted not having a sales team for how many years until now they have a huge sales team that does a lot of that as well. So there's a lot of talk about product led, especially in this new world of go to market where everybody's trying to put a name on the different types of selling strategies, right?
And product led has emerged and that the VCs love it and investors love it because, obviously sales humans cost a lot, but of all the motions product led can have a certain cap to it, right? Just because of the complexities of an enterprise deal. Do you see the same thing or, do you think product led can stand by itself all the way up through the enterprise space?
Zach Diamond: It depends on the product, right? You brought it up earlier when you asked about customer retention. So I can sell you Miro by talking about our whiteboarding capabilities or diagramming or sticky notes, as you just said.
I can bombard you with all these features and functionality, but that doesn't make it a necessary tool. You could make the argument of we're back in the office and we have whiteboards and sticky notes. So I don't need a software, right? Just as an example. And if that's the battle we're fighting, it's always going to be uphill because they can always rip and replace.
There's no reason to stay with this company, but when you add the relationship, the sales component on it, and we start talking about our overarching vision and where we want to go, our mission, that's where you get to a place where people see the true value of. Signing on multiple years at it on a global level.
So some of the customers I work with who are much better at Miro than I am, are really creating magic on the board or talking about having hundreds of people on one board, collaborating to solve a problem or to create a new line of products, to innovate and to get to that level, you have to understand that it's not just personal organization of sticky notes and Kanban boards.
It's the sales motion and by sales, I'm also including quite a bit of marketing, but this revenue enterprise marketing engine is really to educate and show what that end state looks like. It's to sell that vision that I think companies like Microsoft, you have Microsoft office. Like you don't need to sell Microsoft office.
People are like, I have PowerPoint. I have word, I have Excel. These are key building blocks to my company. Miro just being newer, being smaller, we don't have that notoriety yet. So we need more of a motion to inform and educate. The advice I give companies in earlier stages is to do both product led and tops down.
I call it bottoms up and tops down. You have freemium free trials. You have, what Miro has where it's free to use up into a certain extent. You don't get some of the enterprise benefits, but. The great thing about product led is that you allow the product to sell itself.
So you don't need to promote white papers that maybe nobody's going to read. You don't need to have this lead gen motion that is finicky and confusing and attribution has gotten really difficult by having product led. You're just letting people understand the value and play with it themselves.
And It's lockstep with the product strategy because it doesn't work. If the product's not good, right? You have to have product market fit. You have to have your personas dialed in. You have to have use cases dialed in, but if you have that, then you're creating a database that you can market to where I think that Miro probably could have done better.
Thinking about that top down strategy from the beginning. So if you have a product that works really well and solves a problem, don't focus on that functionality entirely. Focus on that for performance marketing, user acquisition, SEO, like getting people in the door, the same way you would a white paper that you want to download and hit MQL, get people into the product and make it really sticky, but then be thinking about that vision, about that strategy.
So it's not. We're helping you organize your daily tasks. we're helping you create a culture of collaboration. We're helping you transform the employee experience so that your employees can innovate faster. You can bring products to market faster.
And the tops down strategy is really the only way to connect those dots.
pharosIQ: It's because to your point, right? and we saw this a lot, I think that the industry as a whole started mistaking subscription for sticky, right? it's really become in some industries and there's a lot of nuances to it, it becomes a feature war.
If you over focus on the product part, you just spend. All of your time dancing on who has this feature, that feature, whoever has the biggest dev team, whoever has the biggest funding, who can burn capital fast enough to have 100, 200 person dev team to just feature the shit out of their audience.
But to your point, like stickiness becomes when somebody at the company has bought in that this is a part of your culture. And again, you use Microsoft, you use Office 365, but there's other, again, if I were to implement Workday, or if I were to implement NetSuite as an ERP, like once those are in, they're pretty much it, the stickiness comes in the fact that that is now a part of how you do business. And I think That's where real growth long term comes in. If you have a segment of customers that say Hey, we couldn't do business without Mira, right? We couldn't do business without X, right?
I think that's where the ultimate go to market ends up being It could start out with building out a user base on a product led side that. you have so many people using it, the executives and the leadership team will start saying, Hey, we can't do business out because there's 200 people on my team using this tool, or you can go that way from that side.
But I think that's the crux, right? That stickiness that comes with some sort of buy in, whether it's organic or inorganic.
Zach Diamond: I would say to a point and depending on your market. So maybe. Smaller market, like SMB mid market, maybe that works. But once you start looking at larger fortune 500 companies, you can't hedge a bet that the product stickiness is going to lead to understanding the full value.
And that's where I think crafting a vision or a strategic value that you're. You're promoting across the market is really important. It's okay. You can reach this end user. And you can reach them really well, and they're going to get in your product and they're going to use it every day. And it's going to change their life,
How do you convey that to it at a very large company? How do you convey that to the CIO or the CSO or the CEO? How are you, why are they having a meeting with you rather than just letting their team pay for it with a credit card or letting it stick in, in some lower level budget, like that's where I think we can get really creative.
Miro doing a good job at this now. But I see other companies. Not focusing as much on this you have the product stickiness and that's great. But how do you escalate that product stickiness so that you're meeting with the executives or that you're meeting with someone that's going to say, this is where we're going.
And you look at companies like Microsoft, AWS, Apple, they have the luxury of just having the brand name that gets them in that conversation right away. So running an executive briefing center, I see this all the time. the size of a company. It's quite rare for Miro to have an executive briefing center companies like Microsoft, AWS, the large companies.
It's very obvious for them to have one because they have customers that want to hear from them as thought leaders Miro being the size. We are, It's a little bit more rare. So what we're doing by having a center is saying we are a thought leader in the space. You just might not know it yet.
So if you're learning about innovation, transformation, how to make your teams collaborate better, how to improve employee experience. You can listen to all the giants out there, but we are actually one of the fastest growing companies in the space. So you should be listening to us too.
pharosIQ: That's fascinating stuff.
I love different motions, right? at the end of the day, to your point, it doesn't matter what motion you choose, if you execute it poorly or that drives your success, You can choose to be a product led company, and if you execute that poorly, then you're not going to see growth.
You can choose to be a sales led company, and if you execute that poorly, you're not going to see growth, So strategy is one thing, but it's just as important to have the execution arm there too. in your case, you were brought in specifically because of your sales led experience, right?
And I think that's where most companies miss. You have this team, you have this, we're product led and we've always has been, and we know we need to grow. And it's okay, all let's just pivot. Let's add the sales led component, but everybody on your team has built.
All they know is product led. That's what they're experts in. That's why you've had so much success. So I think most companies miss it, bringing in the talent, thinking that all the motions are just similar where there's really so many specific nuances to each one.
Always have been. If you asked me to run a product led motion, I could dabble, but having someone who's Hey, I've done this. This is the metrics you should be looking at. These are the tactics you should be using. This is your cost per acquisition focus.
It just, I guess you would say to your point earlier, accelerate success when you bring in experts who know exactly where you should be going.
Zach Diamond: Yeah. I still think you need to do both. So you have to convince buyers. Why they should talk to you in the first place. And that's where I think product led does a better job than anything, but having the sales led component, it differs business by business, But I think a model that blends the two is the optimal one.
pharosIQ: Yeah. From a cost per acquisition standpoint, you mentioned earlier building that marketable database, right?
Having that database of people that you could turn into demos and SQL and that, right? I think the content space is still probably the most cost effective way to do it, right? On a per lead basis, you can build out that internal database relatively cost effective, right? Taking those leads and passing them to a BDR to follow up on.
if you're looking to cost effectively build out a marketable database, right? There's a lot of great content led strategies with eBooks and white papers and things that you can really do that with as well.
Zach Diamond: I think it depends on the industry, the product, but. I would say that having a way to get into a product might actually end up being cheaper in the long run than having a content strategy. And I would say I'm very much a proponent of put everything out there for free. So you have, as an example, mirror Academy or blog posts or the thought leadership we're creating around employee experience, you can access all of that for free.
The goal is that it either leads to a newsletter signup or more likely for us in this situation, a product signup. So I would say content strategy is your public persona. It's brand strategy. It's building credibility, authority, trust in the marketplace. But the database strategy, the lead gen strategy.
. I think it probably differs from business to business, but I'd be interested to see if you track a product led company and you count new users as leads and you follow those both down the funnel, which would be more. Cost effective.
pharosIQ: Yep. it's really industry and that specific cost effective part comes in the path to get to the freemium, creating a piece of content has costs associated it, creating a bunch of piece of content have costs associated with it.
But I think it would be an interesting mathematical setup, right? The factor that doesn't come into play a lot of the time is most successful product led companies get a little bit of virality, right? They get a little bit of this person just starts passing to this person
and the amount of companies in PLG motions that get that virality are fractional, right? So I guess you would say is like your chance to hit. With a P. L. G. Motion given the cost and that to hit that that makes those economics work are way less than the mechanics of a content led journey.
That's a little bit more predictable. From an executive perspective, one's a bigger home run. As an aggregate, if you hit with a PLG motion and you get that virality, then you're cooking with gas, right? But if you don't, the amount of money you put into it to miss is significantly larger than a content strategy.
So it's, I guess you would say risk reward, right? And in some cases that risk reward is driven by how much funding you have. Do you have 200 million in the bank? Are you okay? Burning to grow into a PLG motion, but a lot of companies, especially now are more bootstrapped, right? So every dollar going out has to have a bit more impact coming in.
And again, if you don't hit virality, it becomes. a little tougher to do those economics.
Zach Diamond: But wouldn't you say that content would need to hit virality too to show cost effectiveness?
pharosIQ: It depends on how well you execute it, right? So mathematically, your costs for a product led motion without viral.
Mathematically you're always, if you hit you're good. But for every Slack, Miro, Atlassian, there are box and drop box, which were even earlier cases of product led motions with their free offers on that side. For every one of those five companies, there's 500 that have freemiums that no one downloads.
that's the mechanism I'm trying to showcase, right? If you do well, if you're one of those five companies, then the mathematics are ultimately that, but if you're not one of those five companies, the amount of money it takes to get to that outbound.
You're unpaid, you're doing that and you don't catch the virality. You end up really investing a lot into. A fairly minimal return.
Zach Diamond: Yeah. I would push back on that a little bit because it's premium is just one version of product led growth, right? You can talk about having trials, having lower tiers that you grow within, you expand.
I would say if you look at HubSpot as an example, like they have been able to lead this industry and be, of course like Salesforce is the other giant, but their ability to scale with a company has positioned them for serious long term growth, where I think other competitors in the space have fallen.
So I think it's still both have the content engine, but if you look at, let's say you have less product users than you do have leads from a content. Perspective, but the product users. Are able to talk the talk quicker because they actually see the product and they see the value in real life.
Then you're just going to have higher conversion rates down the funnel, and you're going to have a more sustained database
so it's I would say from a feedback perspective, still getting them in the product. And maybe this is, you do a lead gen.
Program and then you give them a free trial or something along those lines, but getting that user feedback and seeing why people are using the product or not using the product, how they're using it, letting them experience it has always worked better for me than just a simple MQL
pharosIQ: it's. Company specific, right?
Most executives will say, okay, wait, how much am I going to get for this spend?
And if you can confidently say double you're good. Most executives are going, okay, have a nice day. Sounds good. Where most marketing teams struggle. Is when they start talking really complicated attribution stories, right? And we had two touches here and we attributed one and a half percent to that.
most executives are like, what are you even talking about right now? I understand it, but you're not making sense. that's where I think syndication plays well, right? You might only see a 2 percent conversion rate and that's fine, right? Because mathematically that 2 percent is likely going to drive two and a half to three X return on your investment.
Gotcha.
Zach Diamond: I think it goes to the whole holistic strategy of are you creating content? I totally believe in content marketing, by the way. Like it's not just product. It's having the right content, having the right keywords, having that product market fit, you need to show that through the content that you're creating.
it's always felt to me that If the brand strategy is there, the product strategies there, the social media strategy, email trip campaigns, all of that stuff. If it's working in harmony, then content syndication is supplemental
pharosIQ: it's generally about execution, right?
If you have a bad followup structure to your demo request on your website, It's not going to work, If you have a bad follow up, a bad nurture, a bad motion on your syndication, it's not going to work. If you have a bad follow up with anything, whereas if you do it really well, it's almost impossible for it.
Not awesome, but we are reaching our time and we'll have to edit this down a smidge because we're way over time, but it's been really awesome kind of diving in and jumping through. So with that, I will give you an opportunity to talk about your. Be the boring campaign, which, what campaign over your career?
And obviously the nature of your role right now is pretty damn creative and unboring, right? So you can even speak to that as it, you've been doing it a long time and you've done a lot of different things, so we'd love to hear. what your unbeatable ring campaign is, for the audience out there.
Zach Diamond: Sure. Absolutely. So less of a campaign. I've been out of the campaign world for a little bit now, but do you want to focus on the executive briefing program and more how it ties into our overall. ABM motion. So we do ABM pretty well here at Miro. We have a tiered structure, one to one, a few, one to many,
And that's really where this executive briefing center fits in. So again, a lot of executive briefing programs sit under set sales or customer success, This makes a lot of sense for hardware companies as an example. Like you didn't see all the cool tech we have.
But for us it is brand activation to a certain extent. It's, strategic selling and, relationship marketing. So we sit under, product marketing actually. So we have a tight relationship with our ABM team so that they can help us choose the right accounts that we're inviting to the executive briefing center, the discovery center.
And then we're working lockstep with the sales team on curating an agenda that is very specific to them. So let's say that. We're working with, a large healthcare company on, their digital transformation. We're not just going to give them a templatized agenda. We're going to talk about trends in healthcare, what our other healthcare customers are doing, actionable ways that they can help their teams based on their return to office strategy or the distribution of their teams.
We're making it so hyper tailored that the customer leaves with a clear roadmap of knowing where to go. And I think that obviously it's not realistic to say everyone needs to have an executive briefing center. And that's not my advice at all. I think it's more that during this digital age, we've forgotten a lot about hospitality and customer service and really the gift of the gab, right?
Like how do you have these conversations and how do you entertain customers? The executive briefing center being an example, but more when we look at one to one ABM, it's not just doing personalized display advertising or custom landing pages or digital giftings and, sending gifts.
It's not just that. It's how do you create an experience that allows the customer to have a better relationship with you, Which increases conversion rate, but down the line, when there's a renewal coming up or there's an expansion opportunity and the sales rep wants to call in and say, Hey, I want to talk to you about this because you had that conversation at dinner during the executive briefing center, they're going to be more likely to answer it.
And because we gave them such a tailored experience, they know that you understand their pain points. So they're going to trust you when you say. This is a good opportunity for you. I want to talk about it. So it's less of a campaign and more of an integrated motion, but, I would say for companies thinking about one to one ABM, I'd push on what's the actual experience.
And I do think this can be done digitally, but I would say what if you did bring it on site, and maybe reverse engineer it from there. This is a high enough paying customer to where you can put the money in to go on site if that's possible, or you can bring them on your site.
What's the experience like, and if it's not possible, how do you reverse engineer that into a digital experience where it's showing the same level of customer appreciation.
pharosIQ: No, it's really cool. I think the key factor there is, as you mentioned, bringing value.
You're asking customers for a bit, right? To come meet with you to create. make it about them. And not about the customer. So if you make it truly valuable, and again, you pointed, stats on the healthcare industry trends, you're seeing Where they can leave with Hey, not just this person cares about me buying again, but they care about, they're also experts in my industry and I could take these data points back to my team and I can look like a rock star.
I think that's where the key is, and I love one to one ABM, right? I think it's the truest form of ABM. It's where ABM started and, like most things, one to one started out just like that really tailored custom value driven for customers that are your highest potential customers.
And then the executive said how can we scale this? And then it's slowly moved itself down to, in its essence, is ABM really scalable, It's almost counterintuitive, right? How can you be account based, but also scalable? I've seen campaigns and I've seen customers with ABN list of 12, 000 accounts, right?
That's a pretty large ecosystem, right? how can you be more targeted versus a true ABM play? Cause I think most. Companies are confusing true ABM, that one to one tailored custom play, with targeted greenfield.
Like you can be way more laser focused in your green field without calling an ABM, right? Where you have this very specific to your point, just the executive briefing center, like these custom experiences that you're building for a customer. And I believe that's the root of ABM.
I think a lot of customers are going back to that really highly tailored one to one versus the scalable quote, unquote, one to many ABM plays.
Zach Diamond: Yeah, I think both work, right? Davis Potter from ForgeX talking about this a lot and I like it, growth ABM, I think it's what they call it, but it's where you're taking that large list and you're saying these are high intent leads.
Let's market against those and call it ABM or not. I don't really care about the semantics. Like it is an account list, so it's account based marketing, but then it's telescoping that to where you're having the one to one play. We're actually looking at telescoping Our one to one executive briefing to be more one to few.
So instead of going after one account where five people are in the room and where we're hyper tailoring this agenda to their team, it's more, how do we go after a persona from multiple companies and create more of a networking opportunity? So that's something we're looking at, but either way.
Yeah. And establishing ourselves as a company that everyone should be listening to build that trust. And I think that's one to one, one to few, one to many.
pharosIQ: Awesome. Thanks so much, Zachary, for coming. It's been awesome. it's probably the longest podcast I've had, but it's really great.
I enjoy awesome conversation and diving in with industry experts. So for those of you, listening in. You can reach Zachary on LinkedIn, I'm assuming.
Zach Diamond: Yep. Zach Diamond. LinkedIn.
pharosIQ: Awesome. Yeah, check out Miro. Check out, Zach, for any questions about executive briefings.
If that's something that your company may be looking to put a play in.
Zach Diamond: If you're in Austin, welcome to, to give me a shout and come by, experience it for yourself as well. Awesome.
pharosIQ: You can reach us, at pharosIQ.com. For those of you listening on Spotify or Apple music or wherever it is that you listen to podcasts, give us a five star review.
More B2B marketers will find us when they search B2B marketing, if that happens. So we appreciate you. Thanks. Come again soon. And again, Zachary, it's been awesome chatting. Take care.
Zach Diamond: Thanks pharosIQ.
