Join Steve, founder of Coach Communications, as he delves into the latest trends and insights in B2B marketing and communications. He explores the impact of current uncertainties, artificial intelligence, and strategic communication tactics that are shaping the industry.
Key Highlights:
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Steve Vinall on LinkedIn
Summary:
In this episode of pharosIQ’s Podcast, Steve Vinall, founder of Coach Communications, discusses enhancing B2B communication strategies aligned with business goals. He addresses current marketing trends, including market uncertainty, budget challenges, and the impact of AI. Steve shares research insights on B2B communication, highlighting LinkedIn's importance and Glassdoor's role in buyer decisions. He also presented a successful digital PR campaign that demonstrated AI's value in content creation, resulting in significant media coverage and traffic. The episode encourages listeners to evaluate and improve their communication strategies.
[Read the full transcript]
pharosIQ: Welcome, welcome to this week's episode of pharosIQ’s Podcast, the podcast for B2B marketers that is anything but boring. Each week we jump in, we dive in, and we talk to B2B marketers about trends, what's happening, what we're seeing, what we're looking at, and most importantly we end the podcast with a really creative or Exciting or different campaign or project or program that my guest has run, right?
The whole goal here is to inspire you as the B2B marketer to come up with your own unboring ideas and concepts to drive revenue and winning here in 2020 forward beyond. So this week really pumped to have Steve Vinall. Founder of Coach Communications award winning brand and communications leader with 20 years of experience, private and public companies, spent a lot of time in the B2B technology sector, companies like Binder Rackspace technology and Dunhumby.
So he's got a ton of experience working in B2B tech, a ton of experience across all different facets of B2B marketing. So Steve, welcome. Good to have you.
Steve Vinall: Hey, pharosIQ. Thank you for having me. So let's just jump right in. Tell us a little bit about coach communications just to get us started off.
Steve Vinall: Yeah, I think the idea behind coach communications is for probably for all that stint of client side. Communications where I was the in house leader, I think what I realized the piece of the puzzle that I enjoyed the most, and arguably the piece where I added most value was coming in and either building something or fixing something or transforming those communications departments to really get them working and get them adding measurable value.
And. Often once you get that bit done where you've got the right team in place, potentially the right agencies in place and so on, that I found a lot of my job was then managing politics and, the team management and all of that stuff, which I love. But I decided that, there's a lot of companies that need help getting communications working for them.
So the idea of coach is exactly that it's come in on a short term project basis, identify what's working, what's not working. And most importantly, align that to business objectives, whether a company's looking to grow, Whether a company is looking to cut costs, whether a company is looking to attract or retain talent, whatever those needs of the business, there's a communication strategy and program that can support that.
And that's exactly what coach communications looks to do. Get that plan in place, leave behind a playbook that is deliverable within the resources that company has. And without that need for that ongoing long term retainer and really just help companies be self sufficient and get comms working.
pharosIQ: Awesome. Yeah it's a really interesting, vibe, getting that, that go to market help and expertise without the big, long commitment, the big, long retainer. And I think that's where a lot of the market's going. So speaking of, where things are going, you work with a lot of different B2B marketing and go to market teams, given your role, and what you're doing now so what are you seeing across the board? What are the trends that are happening? What problems are our teams seeing? What solutions are they coming up with? What are you seeing?
Steve Vinall: Okay I'll probably give you three things in response to this, I think, and I don't think any of these are going to be unique or going to surprise your listeners, but they're very present in, every conversation I'm having right now.
The first one is around uncertainty, just general, Uncertainty in our everyday lives and whether that geopolitical situations going on around the world, whether that's inflation higher than any of us would like around the world, market volatility with the financial markets. A big one even is politics, this.
I heard a stat recently, 2024, half of the world's population will take, will be eligible for taking part in an election this year. It's the busiest election year ever in the world. With all that, with all of those things I've just mentioned drives a huge amount of uncertainty in the markets.
So you, you may guess from the accent I'm based here in the UK. We've just had our general election. We've now have a new government for the first time in 14 years. And there was a lot of uncertainty in the lead up to that. Now that brings with it uncertainty about what the future is going to look like.
And so what really, what that's, how that's playing out in the commercial world, many companies are having to shift priorities. The simplest one, it might be shifting from grow to survive. And. Slowing down of those sales cycles. It seems that increasingly more and more people are getting involved in buying decisions, which naturally slows things down, which means more proof points are needed.
And just, spends going under scrutiny and that coming back to that point about the model of coach communications, that's where we find that project led. Approach is working really well. I'm going to come in. I'm going to solve this problem. We're going to charge you this much money. It's going to take this long.
And this is what you're going to get the end of it rather than trying to sell a 12 month retainer. So to speak, I think so. That's the first bit around uncertainty that. naturally is leading to reduced budgets. And whether that's companies being more prudent with their general spending, whether that's projects being delayed because of the uncertainty or just companies being more price sensitive or focused on a return on investment.
And I think probably the main reason we're seeing this is in this uncertainty, Companies are wanting to hold back a little bit that cash, those cash reserves for keep a bit of a war chest in place in case it's needed. And that's in case it's needed to, by their way, save their way back into profitability or, ultimately set and saving the need to cut costs more radically down the line.
And that's making it harder to sell that, there's brands are needing to come up with new and innovative pricing models and different ways of packaging up. Products to make them or services, making them easier to sell. And I think on that note this leads to another challenge that we see at the end of potentially end of quarters or halves, but definitely at the end of the years when there's this real volatility in sales, because potentially A brand is left with a load of money to spend and one month to spend it in.
And I've done some, I've done some of my worst spending in that period where you have a million dollars to spend, but you need to do it in six weeks. So you're then, you need to move quick. You need to try and secure the best deal with that money, or you lose it. For sellers, I think it's being responsive and being able to speed up when they need to and package things slightly differently.
pharosIQ: I'm really seeing a ton of definitely the first, the, just the buying process is now just weighed down by inputs coming from every direction, even in, even I'm saying, purchases, 20k, 15, 10k purchases that used to be just, sign off at the manager or director level are getting rolled up to executives, right?
With two or three stamps just to get that. So it's I absolutely agree that, it's the, that uncertainty that's, just making everybody but I also think it's good. I think, let's be honest, I think B2B got a little out of hand, right? Between 2020 and 2022, right? With buying and spending and, I think a really strong market with free capital covered up a lot of blemishes and a lot of process issues at some companies.
So I think we need to find the middle ground. Not I think we've gone a little bit too far where CFOs are approving 10k deals, but I think we were a little bit to the wrong side when we're dropping 100k on softwares that we probably don't need.
Steve Vinall: Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree.
It's same with processes, isn't it? You don't want to be overburdened by them, but you do need processes in place for everything. Otherwise things just grow out of control. And the final one I was going to jump on, which I don't think will surprise you is artificial intelligence. I can't not mention it because.
Whether personal life or work life, it just seems to be in every conversation I'm having. And the way I look at it, it felt like, most of us were introduced to generative AI, second half of 2022 when ChatGPT was launched, and it felt like up until the end of the first half of 2023, it was a bit of the Wild West or certainly more uncertainty.
What is this thing? Is it valuable? Do we need it? Is it safe? But I'd say, for the last year, since midway 23, brands have been rushing to integrate it into their technology. And go to market with it and some amazing use cases, some not so good, I think it's the impact that's had on, on, sellers and go to market teams is first of all product teams as well, having to create this offering and make it relevant and usable.
And then marketing teams have had to, create collateral and information around it and learn it themselves. And sellers have had to learn all that. So it's been a real pivot for many companies and a race to, To get the best product to market in the best way, but then I think on the flip side, it's really helped that, whether, just for your average seller, whether it's taking notes and insights out of a call, whether it's forecasting, whether it's creating content or proposals, it plays a real role of speeding things up.
And some of the offerings are just so valuable now. So it's just interesting to see how fast and how much will say that. That technology is matured in such a short space of time. And scary to think where it will be in two years or five years.
pharosIQ: Yeah. It's AI is one of those. I, so I think I just have this vibe that it's progressed so fast, that it's you're going to have that phase where everybody goes slow down, right? Slow down wait, or or there'll be so much automation that gets pushed in everyone's face that we'll all start craving for like that human touch. So I think sales and marketing, especially in B2B will revert back to what's old will become new again.
As people will like, Start reaching out for man, I wish somebody would try to connect to me as a human, right? And not just create some AI driven email based on whatever I have floating around my social media, right? So I think we're already starting to see a lot of that. I know personally I can tell.
When I'm being sequenced by an AI bot, right? I can just tell, like they all reference the same things from my LinkedIn profile, especially if you're active on LinkedIn, if you're active on LinkedIn or another social platform, right? Like when your emails start regurgitating what you've posted to you, you're in somebody's AI sequence, I'm seeing it and I'm sure if I'm feeling it, a lot of buyers are feeling it around there too.
Steve Vinall: Yeah, a hundred percent. And the flip side to that, if you look at the more process orientated stuff, I had a sales call this week and, I'm a big note taker because I, really like to understand and be able to reflect back on it.
So using, I won't name it, but using one of those meeting AI tools had that going on in the background. Had a really good conversation with 100 percent dialed in on the conversation, but then jump off that call. And then this particular thing has a prompt, you can ask it questions. Can you tell me 10 things I learned about their company on the call?
Bang. They were perfect. Can you tell me? Five ways in which I could, I can offer services to this company back, based on the discussion we'd had. And I think that is just so invaluable that means I'm doing a better job and doing it quicker. So I think definitely some of the backend process stuff is just a real game changer.
And yet, of course it's about using it with care and content generation and things it gets in front of customers. And when we get to When we get to the creative example that I know you're going to ask me at the end of this, I can tell you a bit more about how people know.
pharosIQ: Awesome. You recently posted, some really great insights on social media and the effects for B2B and revenue teams, right? So for those of us listening who maybe haven't read it or seen it can you give us like a quick download of what some of the data you were able to uncover?
Steve Vinall: Yeah, of course.
So this was some research we did for a client and they is B2B services, primarily marketing sold into marketing teams. So we wanted to challenge them on which communication tactics are and are not working. So we did a survey of Those in businesses with a B2B purchasing mandate.
And we asked. We asked a bunch of questions. We wanted to get lots of different insight, but one of the kind of crux of it was when you're buying a product or a service, which of these communications elements are important to you and how important. And so we asked them about a fairly long list 37 items, from analyst relations, through to customer advocacy, through to B2B review platforms and so on.
And of course, a part of that work we delve deeper into social. I think three, three, it's probably three headlines that I think are interesting. Two of them for me were very validating and one of one was quite surprising for me. One of the ones that I wasn't too surprised that but was, Maybe it's price how the levels of important.
So LinkedIn, stand ahead, the dominant B2B platform. And again, to be clear on this, if I'm, if someone's looking to buy a product or service and a B2B environment, they see B2B they see LinkedIn as an important place to go and check out the company before they engage in any discussions with them.
So yeah, LinkedIn was ranked at 90 percent importance and the things that really came out of there. Again, no big surprise is the content they're sharing on it and the organization and structure of the company page. So things like engagement, post engagement, number of followers yeah, they didn't matter so much.
So it's really about getting the right content out there and having a solid setting for your page. The second thing that was validating was around the other platforms using a B2B environment. So I think, if I look back over my career working client side, I've And every kind of team where I've inherited some sort of social media remit, there is always come with a Twitter or X account and often an Instagram or a Facebook account.
And generally I've either shut them down completely or really scaled back to, to continue our investment in LinkedIn. And this survey validated that the, of those platforms, so Instagram, Facebook. Pinterest and TikTok were four of them I asked, none of them scored over 40 percent importance.
And 37 dimensions we asked, those four social media platforms were the least important thing. And I guess the dichotomy there is, still no data shows that 80 percent of B2B marketers are still using Facebook. 70 percent are using Twitter or X 50%, 6 percent using Instagram. So I think there's a lot of time and energy invested in those platforms that potentially aren't driving much value.
And then the final part, this was the one that surprised me was Glassdoor and how powerful that is. So Glassdoor, I'm sure your audience will know the employee review site where you can share your feelings on the company that you work or worked at. This is a blind spot for many companies.
We we offer a free comms assessment where we look at, we, we take that external view of looking at a brand from outside eyes and making decisions about how strong it is. Glassdoor is one of the things that we look at and we'll always see companies lacking in that, not responding to comments, not, not investing any time in that.
And actually, and for me, that's always been about, be the employer brand or, the ability to recruit talent. If I'm looking to go for a job, I'm going to look at Glassdoor. If there's bad reviews and unanswered reviews, I'm probably going to have some red flags. But actually our survey showed that 69 percent of B2B buyers find Glassdoor important.
As in a buying decision. And that was a complete shock to me. So just to go back up those numbers, 90 percent importance for LinkedIn, 69 And then everything else was under 40%. So it really shows the, it's a really tangible way of seeing the, employee engagement and having invested employees is a real driver of business success.
And, for me, that's a very tangible marker of that.
pharosIQ: Is it, are you seeing a lot of, on LinkedIn, I'm seeing, I don't want to say conflicting ideations, but there's, is the investment, should it be on the brand, or should it be in, creating personal brands of employees of the brand, or a combination of both.
Steve Vinall: Yeah. That was interesting. They, the client I'm working with, we did the research. That was one of the things we wanted to find out because they. Relatively small brand, and they'd really focus on their founders as being the voice. the voice piece of the brand.
And actually the founders or senior leaders of a brand that ranked fairly low importance, whereas actually the company page was seen as the most important source of truth. And I guess it makes sense. If you're going to buy from a company that only has two employees, then, those two founders are, probably known to you and they're probably it's probably worth seeing what they're talking about.
But, when you get 100 person company is people aren't going to know who the CFO is, or, maybe the CEO is. So I think the company page is the most important aspect. But yeah, there's no doubt that you get that amplification through. The employee advocacy side of it. And that is, I think the sweet spot is the company pages, the points of truth, and you're sharing interesting information and insights there, but then if you can rally your employees around to put their personal spin on that view, you can amplify that tenfold.
And yeah, I've seen some really great results with, getting a good employee advocacy program in place on social.
pharosIQ: Yeah, I, it's, and it's hard to do, cause you have to try to find the balance between like your employee. It's, the advocate, the advocacy software and programs, right?
Like the good base step is just to get your people clicking that button to share stuff. But like the home run is when you can get your team as a whole speaking as experts to your community. But it's easier said than done. But it's I think it's really, truly valuable.
Steve Vinall: Yeah, of course, as social media is just so personal to everyone as well, so it you need it as a brand.
You want it to be authentic from your employees. But as an employee, if you don't believe in that message, then you shouldn't necessarily be sharing it. But yeah, I think there's a number of platforms out there that make it incredibly easy. And again, AI comes into it find a post that you're interested in, click a button, it can come up with some copy for you or you can write that copy yourself and you can schedule that share.
So I think there are some good technology that, that can help with that. But yeah, it's it's the holy grail if you can get there. So
pharosIQ: we haven't talked a ton on the podcast to date about PR, and I've noticed as well, LinkedIn, you have some thoughts on PR, et cetera, so I'll ask you a starter question, like to send the presser or not, right?
Like as a CEO I've worked with CEOs and, there's this misconception that the CEO, or maybe there is a conception that the CEO just always wants to send a press release about everything, right? And there's, and. Yeah. So what are your thoughts and what are your customers and clients set, thinking about that?
When is the right time for a presser? Is there a right time for a presser? Just, I guess enlighten me on that.
Steve Vinall: Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think, with everything in. Sales and marketing, but I'd say particularly with communications, PR, analyst relations, social media, internal comms, it's so important to align to business objectives.
And there may be business objectives that make a press release absolutely mandatory. That might be regulatory or situational stuff, that you need to inform the market of certain changes or product lines or changes of personnel and so on. A big one is the competition.
We want to get this press release out to give the competition a bit of a poke so they see what we're up to. And I've written a lot of press releases that. I definitely don't for media. They're just for our competition to look at. And I don't whether that's right or wrong. I don't know.
It depends certainly on the market and some of the players in it. I'd say in terms of the press release, some general tips the fairly straightforward, but are often not done. They shouldn't be company focused. Unless you're a Google or an Apple or a Walmart, unless you're a brand that people know about and, have some sort of feeling about whether that's love or hate Apple will launch a new iPhone.
They're going to get some coverage. But if B2B SaaS brand that you've never heard of launches version 14. 2. a very unlikely that's going to garner any coverage. And I think, PR is about earned coverage. You're trying to get a journalist or a media outlet to cover your story and give it that third party validation.
If you're not writing stories that, outlets are going to be interested in publishing, then you may as well write a blog. You may as well do, some content or an email campaign to tell that story to a more focused audience. And I think that, so then if we talk about earning Content and earning the right to appear alongside other stories that for a lot of brands, it's tough because you might need to step out of your comfort zone.
So you might be looking to sell product X, but you might need to be talking mainly about problem. Why, the problem that the product is there to solve. And if you build that, that a press release, something around the problem and the thing that you're out there to solve. And then the final line is, Oh, by the way.
This brand has this product that will help that may not be seen as a very commercial or very salesy press release, but actually it's one that's more likely to get coverage. And then, and then data is so important to earn that coverage. It makes things more interesting. It makes things credible.
Even today, I, as much as I hate to say it, the surveys still work. They, they've been going on for years and years and years. You come up with an interesting angle and you get some data behind it. And that may be through a survey that will give you a better chance of earning coverage.
pharosIQ: Yeah, I see it too. I see it a lot. I love that. I love that. Like what's happening now, though, is what qualifies as a survey, right? I talk to seven people and now that's, so there's some quantifiable metrics, but I do also enjoy the competitor Press release, like the one that's obviously written just to either poke at or poke with or, stir up some competitive, industry type stuff.
And I think there's to your point, there's value there, right? There's value in like publicly drawing a line in the sand. And kind of thing,
Steve Vinall: It can help you sellers as well to, it's another thing to have in their back pocket. I think probably, I started off this by talking about business objectives and, for many of your listeners who are in B2B, probably in commercial roles, out there selling or trying to support sales, I think.
Digital PR, which is a relatively new term when you think of the broader, more traditional PR. It's a really valuable proposition. And so just, to sum that up in a minute or two, it's it starts in the same place. You have A data led interesting story that is, relevant to the audience that you're trying to talk to and what you can do because then press release can only be so long.
So you put half of the data or the headlines in the press release, but then you have a landing page or a data hub on your website. You can put a link to your website with the rest of the story with the full data with the drop down that you hope people will want, once they've seen the headlines.
So what that kind of forces a journalist to do is put a link to your site into their coverage that will drive traffic to your site. And backlink should be a really big thing. People try and get backlinks in press releases all the time. And it's very hard to do, but you need some value at the end of that backlink.
It's not just do me a favor and link to my website, what that then does is, you're still earning that coverage, but you're getting links to your site and why that's really important. important and why that becomes a much more compelling offering for a b2b brand, first of all you're getting that coverage and visibility, but you're also getting referral traffic that is very measurable.
We know that off the back of this press release, we got this many visits through to our website. And then through the technology, we know what they did on the website. So we get all of that type of insight, but you know what, if that brand pops up in your Salesforce, your CRM, you also get a level of attribution to that PR campaign that, is always been impossible today.
And that's the very kind of. obvious first part of it, but then, without goes without saying the more links you can get from reputable media outlets, the more credible your site seems to Google. So then you look more than likely to appear higher in SEO. So I think You know, this is digital PR is much smarter and much more relevant style of PR to do for those commercial audiences that aren't can't maybe can't afford to just spend a million dollars a year on brand building and brand awareness.
And in this uncertain environment, we're in, as I said, at the start, those are counting every penny, I think digital PR becomes a much easier sell to an organization.
pharosIQ: Awesome. Yeah, it's good. It's really good stuff. Appreciate the insight there, especially as the impact that backlinked PRs have to SEO and page ranking and, and keeping the Google and the Bing, algorithm monsters happy.
Because that's obviously where a lot of the organic comes from. So awesome. So Yeah. We've reached that moment, right? The beat a boring segment of said podcast where we dive in and we talk about a campaign or two that, we're very unboring that you've run over the years.
So tell us about one or two of them, what you liked about it. Why was it unboring? Did it work? All the details.
Steve Vinall: Okay. I'll tell you what, I will start with one. That is that maybe, is a digital PR campaign. So that will maybe help explain a bit of a case study for what I've just covered.
This was working with a company that had another company that had launched an AI offering into their, into their SaaS platform. And Wanted to get the word out there. And of course, press releases would do the role to get that out for the competition and so on. B2B SaaS platform has launched an AI offering that does X, Y, and Z.
It, that's a tough sell to a journalist who are probably getting 500 of those a day. So we knew we needed to be smart. We knew we needed to be creative and we knew there was a big. AI conversation happening the, we could get that brand to be part of. Rather than talk about the.
The product or the brand itself. We decided to talk and the platform was all around content and delivering content experiences to audience, helping brands manage their content. So we ran a study. So what we did is it was called the brief off and we took two teams, one team comprised of a copywriter and a designer, and the other team comprised Relatively kind of entry level marketer who was armed with a chat GPT subscription, and we gave them both the same brief and the brief was something along the lines of launch a sportswear brand targeted at women aged 35 to 46 based in the U S blah, blah, blah.
Same brief given to both of those teams. And then those teams went away and what they had to do was come up with a brand identity, a content strategy. and an example of a piece of content. I think it was a blog about a particular product line. And so the teams went off and did that. Obviously AI took a lot longer.
It was a lot quicker, and really the role of that, the prompter there was just make it make sense. If you, if the first answer meets a brief, then that's what we take. If it doesn't, then, keep prompting until you get something that's viable. So ultimately we had two kind of. Brand identities and piece of content. And then to build, which kind of was an interesting enough story, but then to build that data angle, we put both of those in front of a thousand marketers around the world, and we asked them a number of questions, but really the crux of it was, can you work out which was done by AI and which do you prefer?
And probably no surprises. And back to your point earlier, the audience were, not as convincing as I might have thought, but we're able to spot which was AI. I think it was like 65 percent spotted, which was AI. And probably about the same number preferred the human approach. So it validated that thing that AI is not there yet.
But not a million miles off, but then we had some really, and we had an interesting story, a very visual story with the data behind it. And then I did exactly, we did exactly what we said. Half of that data was left on the side. The other half was given to journalists. And from that, they, the brand was able to come up with two different press releases, slightly different angles on the same news story, but then I know they also used it in events.
They used it through. On site content. So that, that was a nice case study that was used to talk about the value of AI and where to use it and where not, but just in, in under a week, that campaign earned 70 pieces of coverage. And the majority of those were in tier one titles for that company.
Secured 40 links to their site again in that one week. These numbers are counting ever since, but they averaged the domain authority of those was 72 against the target of 50. So these were really strong publications. We're linking to this website, which will have impacted that domain authority. And again, in that first week, 109 web sessions came directly through.
So 109 unique users. Click from one of those articles onto the website, and then, we're in the final so to speak, and able to be attributed and so on. And that was part, that was one part of a bigger digital PR campaign in a very, in the space of about three or four months comparing quarter on quarter delivered seven times more coverage and eight times more referrals.
To the site of the brand. I think a nice creative approach. Using talking about the topic without talking about the brand. And I need to give a shout out on that. I hope you don't mind. But there was a team boss would imagination, which are digital PR agency based in Manchester.
They did the, ultimately their idea and they did a lot of that creative. So I can't pass off that idea without giving those guys a shout out.
pharosIQ: Awesome. Yeah. Sounds like an awesome campaign. Very much a, very much like a hackathon, right? But from the marketing standpoint, right? How do we attack this and that? So awesome stuff. So awesome. Steve, thanks so much. It's been really awesome kind of chatting. We're we're coming up to time so any parting thoughts for the audience?
Steve Vinall: Any parting thoughts? No keep listening to be too boring, of course. And if you need any help with your communications, if you're, if there's, if you're not sure if it's working or if it's not working or you want to get it better, working better.
Get in touch with coach communications on LinkedIn. And if nothing else, you can get a free comms assessment that will look at over 30 data points available to the general public. In the same way I'm looking, if I'm looking to buy from a brand, I'm going to be looking at their LinkedIn, looking at their glass store, apparently looking at a number of things.
We can do that assessment and give you a score and let you know, which areas to improve. So that wasn't a thought that was a pitch. I hope that's allowed pharosIQ.
pharosIQ: That is absolutely allowed. Always welcome Again, thanks Steve. It's been great having you and for those of you listening pharosIQ Make sure to jump over to whatever podcast platform you're listening on give us a few comments Give us five stars, you know All of those things help us rank when people are out there searching for new b2b and b2b marketing podcast out there So thank you again for all that are listening share it with your friends and Find us at pharosIQ on LinkedIn. Thanks again, Steve. It was awesome.
Steve Vinall: Thanks, pharosIQ.